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john lewis (by way of john lewis <johnlewis@???>) wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:47:09 +0000
> Tony Whitmore <tony@???> wrote:
>> At the time of Ubuntu's release (i.e before Sarge) it offered much
>> that Debian didn't. It still offers newer packages than Debian in
>> general. (Although Etch and Edgy will probably have pretty similar
>> application versions, the next Ubuntu release will come a lot
>> quicker than Debian and feature newer packages.)
>
> Ubuntu offers newer packages than Debian Unstable ???
No, it offers newer packages than Debian Stable. Ubuntu 6.10 has Firefox
2.0 for example, which Debian Sarge doesn't. The package versions in
Debian Etch and Ubuntu 7.04 will be pretty similar as they are both
released about the same time, but following releases of Ubuntu will have
newer packages than Debian, until the next Debian stable release.
>I'd agree that
> Sarge is pretty out of date but a lot of people like its stability.
Of course.
> OK it could be a pain if I had these newfangled USB devices that
> needed attaching & reattaching but I only have a mouse and a smartcard
> reader that are permanently attached and with only 2 USB ports on any
> system until very recently I wasn't likely to want anything else.
That explains why it's not very important to you, but I'm sure you can
understand why it would be more important to other people. Off the top
of my head I plug a webcam, a mouse, a digital camera, a printer, a card
reader and a DVB tuner in via USB. Being able to move these devices
between systems easily is also a bonus.
>> All the tracking of device nodes, partitions and file systems is
>> handled for me. Now, a lot of the above wouldn't happen in Etch as
>> it has the newer kernel/udev/HAL etc. that Ubuntu does.
>
> I do have udev as I upgraded to the 2.6 kernels as soon as they
> became available in Sid, can't say I understand how to use it
> properly though. I do understand the concept of giving devices
> permanent locations ( to simplify it) that they are mounted to each
> time they are plugged in.
Yes, that's one of the important things it does. For the most part, the
udev rules (i.e. what gets mounted where) shipped by your distro should
be sufficient that you don't have to interact with udev directly. It
should Just Work. All I've ever had to do is tweak a couple of group
ownerships on devices, at least one of which is fairly new to being
supported. It's pretty funky really.
> I cannot think of any package important to me in Unstable, broken in
> recent months, that actually stopped me from working. The only real
> bummer was xorg breaking last year but it was only a day before it
> got fixed.
"Sorry boss, I can't do any work today because I can't use any of my
(GUI) apps." It's just not acceptable.
> I don't use firefox a lot, other than to get to sites that for some
> stupid reason don't accept my preferred browse which is of course
> Opera and my only real use for Oo is to open M$word/exell docs I get
> sent, tho' I do use it to write a very occasional letter when I am
> p****d of with the LA or other 'them type' body.
Well, substitute Firefox with whatever application you depend on.
Sylpheed or Geneweb perhaps.
> However I do think distros like ubuntu provide too many packages for
> newbies(2)
By the same argument Debian is surely also unsuitable for newbies? It
has the most packages of any distribution.
>too many for me come to that) something that Linspire set
> out to overcome by only providing a small sub-set of what is
> available from the outset.
Well the standard Ubuntu distribution provides one of everything. Users
aren't overwhelmed with multiple competing applications:
* Firefox for web browsing
* Evolution for mail / calendaring
* OO.o for word processing, spreadsheet, presentations
* Rhythmbox for music playback
* Totem for video playback
* Gaim for IM
* etc. etc.
> (2) too many for me come to that, one of the reasons I like Debian
> is that it is possible to install only the base system, than add a
> personal selection of packages. Other distros I have played with
> recently don't seem to allow that approach.
You can totally do a CLI-only install with Ubuntu. Take a look at the
"Alternate" install CD or "server" install CD. There is even an
unofficial Ubuntu release that provides a full CLI environment with
useful programs, if you're interested:
http://alecjw.googlepages.com/cubuntu-commandlineubuntu
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Tony
