Re: [Hampshire] Iceweasel

> Thing is, the other distros don't seem to have a problem, so what's so
> special about Debian?

The other distros *do* have a problem - just not all of them are
addressing it at the moment (AFAIK).

The problem is that the MPL[1] isn't a free licence - it gives you rights
to look at the source, but not to use it[2].

Does that sound controversial? Possibly. The problem is that the MPL
grants you rights to use the intellectual property in Mozilla products
*except for any patent- or trademarked-protected bits*. And, since the
Mozilla/Firefox names, logos, etc. are all trademark-protected, that means
you can't use them. So, although the MPL says I have a right "to use,
reproduce, modify, display, perform, sublicense and distribute the
Original Code (or portions thereof) with or without Modifications", that
right is subject to me not breaking their trademark protection. By passing
on code that calls itself "Firefox" or whatever, I am breaking that
trademark protection, so I have no right to pass on that code...

Now, some mitigation of this is in place, in the guise of the "Community
Edition Policy", which basically allows me to re-build Mozilla stuff
as-is, but not use the Mozilla name or the logos. And the Mozilla
Foundation can *require* me to stop using any part of the
Firfox/Thunderbird names if they decide to (no right of appeal, from what
I've read), with no restrictions on what they can determine to constitute
the "low quality" status. That means I can't choose what to do with code
derived from Mozilla sources if I still want it to be called "Firefox" -
that's not very Free.

So we end up with IceWeasel and SeaMonkey.

>> >So Firefox as distributed isn't DFSG-free? Big deal.

Big deal. Very, very big.

The whole of this distribution has occurred because people are prepared to
contribute code to the common pool, and allow others to use it as they see
fit. The Mozilla Foundation is not doing this - they are permitting others
to view their code, but putting tight restrictions on what can be done
with it. This is entirely contrary to the principles that have caused G/L
software to become the force it currently is.

> As I said, this is indeed not a practical problem. The issue I have is
> that Debian's free software zealotry may damage the uptake of Firefox

But what you have misunderstood is that it is *NOT* zealotry on the part
of Debian that has caused this; it is Mozilla's non-free licence.

> IceWeasel could damage the Firefox brand.

I'm entirely sure it will. And that will be Mozilla's fault, and their
problem to boot.

Vic.
[IceWeasel user, and soon-to-be distributor]


[1] The Mozilla page keeps talking about "tri-licencing", implying that
Mozilla products are released under MPL, GPL, and LGPL simultaneously. If
this is the case, I really can't see how they have a leg to stand on; if I
can licence their source under GPL, I have rights to everything that's
included - which covers names and logos.

[2] Not without the modifications we're talking about, anyway...